How to create B2B product pages that convert (tutorial)

I'm on a quest to uncover the secrets to crafting the perfect SAS website. In each episode, I talk with product marketing professionals who share their opinions on the future of B2B websites, as well as give tactical breakdowns on how to activate buyers faster. So, today I'm joined by Logan Hendrickson, a product marketer who specializes in today's topic, which is product pages. In B2B, almost every single buyer who eventually becomes a customer is going to visit your website looking for answers as part of the evaluation process. And product pages are simply the best way to show buyers what your product does and explain to them how it can solve their problems and why they should choose you over competitors. And so in this episode, Logan is going to share his framework for smashing these product pages out of the park. Let's jump in. Okay, Logan, let's talk product pages. So um the the first question is why why should people care about product pages? Why should they even think about doing them in in the first place? Yeah, it's a good question. But I think the main reason is if somebody is shop actually shopping for your stuff.

Um I don't know how hot of a take it is, but I think that homepages are pretty overrated. And like usually if you land on a homepage, it's basically to say, is this in the ballpark of what I thought it was? You know, like you get there and you're like, okay, yeah, it is a CRM. It is a and I think that's why a lot of the positioning people who talk about like company positioning talk about homepages are like it's got to be just very clear. It's got to be who are we for, you know? So you lay in there you're like cool. This is like generally in the ballpark. What most people do if they're actually shopping is they try to find that first drop down that's like a solution or a product or an outcome or like something or they're like give me some more details. So that's why I think they matter. I think it's important to get one level deeper that you don't want to put on your homepage necessarily, but you want for people who are like, "Yeah, I kind of get what you do. I want to know like what exactly what actually do you do?" And so that's why that's why the matter like most, you know, I saw a stat some like six sense thing. It was like 70% of the buying decision happens before they talk to a saleserson in B2B.

And it's like they're definitely going on your website though, you know, and so a lot of it is like, yeah, I'm talking to my friends or I hear I used I used an old tool or whatever, but they're going on your website, they're clicking around and they're like, does should this meet my short list? And the product page is where where people convert a lot when they're like actually getting closer to the this the process. Yeah. When they're looking for specific answers, right? Um Yeah. Maybe you don't have a preference to this because it it seems like there's no universal way to do product pages. Of course, there's no universal way to do anything. But do do you have any preference u with regards to whether they are like use case focused or persona focused or like you know you have different types like you have industry verticals you have use cases you have featurebased product pages like do you have any preference towards those or are they all kind of the same thing with different flavors? That's a good question. I think when I when I think of product pages I think of the container is what's on the menu. like what could I actually purchase and I want to know that. So I think service industry like can should and does some don't as much as they should but like you should use product pages if you're a service or too but like basically what's the package I can buy like start there you know like if I have three packages or if I have two different products you can buy or like start with like the name of the solution and then tell me everything that's like in that and the problems that it solves and like some of the use cases and personas like weaved in.

That's the first thing you should do. If you get to the point where you want to add persona pages and use case pages and industry pages, like all that is is cool, but I'd say that's like secondary probably as in my opinion of like first you want to get like, okay, I land on this accounting website, accounting firm or whatever, you know, I want to know, do they do accounts payable? I don't know much about accounting. I don't know why I picked that. But like, you know, I go to this the like the NAV and be like, "Okay, do they actually do the specific tasks that I do? Show me that first instead of like four directors of accounting." Like that's a little less uh it's cool, but it's not like the first level of importance in my opinion. Sweet. Makes sense. All right. Well, interested to hear more about the the process you take. Yeah. Uh people through. Yeah, sure. Let's um the first thing you got to do so if you think about a product page as I pull my screen up um it's really just like the output of product level positioning and messaging. And so that's why I think product marketers should own product like the product page sections of a website if not the whole website but at least the like solution and product and use case and all stuff we've just been talking about because really it should just be like your best product marketing asset. All the work you do around research and persona stuff and like uh ICP and like everything you do as a product marketer should basically be wrapped up in a bow and that is the product page is like your best sales asset, your best product marketing asset. You should be able to use it as a as like a slide deck alternative if you're selling if you're like on a call with somebody trying to sell. um you should be able to just pull up the product page and scroll them through that and that kind of like sells it for you. Um so all that to be said, what I do is around product pages, but really what I do is around like product level positioning and messaging and then reflect that on a page. So I start with this thing called the blueprint. It's probably similar to a lot of other like positioning and messaging frameworks out there. Um but you start with your ICP background, what I call it. basically like if these things are different based on your products you sell, you want to call that out. Like maybe you sell to a whole rev or but you have one product that sells just to sales people, you know, like you can do some ICP like some more narrow work on on this before you get into the rest of it and how this blueprint works.

and anyone like watching this, you know, like I I'm happy to send this to you too um to fill this out, but like basically it builds on like unless you can nail this one, the next one's not going to really make sense and so on and so on. So, um basically, yeah, you got to figure out who are you actually talking to, what's their department, what's their product, like what's the product category they look for, what's their main job to be done like. And then I like to do like a very short abbreviated jobs to be done. Like I know there are people who are like experts at that. I'm just kind of like what's your job title? What are the main things you like actually try to do? And hopefully my product does some of that stuff, you know. Um just just a question on this because you said a a couple of times like um I think you use the words product level positioning and you know obviously I guess in a page represents a product. How how granular do you go there? Like when you say product in your mind, are you thinking of a complete separate like product module that a company has or could you have product pages for just certain features as part of that product? Like do do you have any thoughts there? Yeah, I think a page per feature would be a lot and my the way I think about the hierarchy is like there's company level positioning and messaging. You know, it's like how do we want to be known in the in the universe as Acme, you know, like as a business, as Salesforce?

Um, and then there's like I'm not that familiar with Salesforce. I keep using these examples that I'm like are not my I've used it, you know, but it's like they've got their marketing cloud, they've got their operations thing. So like basically there's positioning and messaging at that next level down and then the layer underneath that marketing cloud there's like a bunch of features that happen. I would say that the the messaging at the product level includes how you talk about those features. So uh we'll get down here but it's like what's the feature? What's the capability that that feature unlocks? what do I get by using this? And then how do I prove that this is like actually helpful? And so part of figuring out your product level messaging is basically what are all the features that my product does and how's the best way that I want to actually talk about those. And so when you zoom out to the website, um I think a page for that marketing cloud and I mean Salesforce is a bad example because they're massive. They probably have a million pages for million things. But I think what I would want as a buyer is like, okay, what's the thing I can buy from you? What are all the things that it does? And that is the product level, the product level positioning. And it just like it's not different. It has to fit under the umbrella of the company level positioning, but it is distinct. Like it's it's basically like a a funnel. It just gets more and more narrow. And then when you get down to the feature level and it's like as specific as it gets like click this button, it does this thing. You know what I mean? So yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay, cool. That's I guess the sorry the the reason why I brought that up is just I I mean I've never really worked with like large companies and so I normally find myself working with startups where they only have one product. Um yeah, now that product might have many features and capabilities but ultimately it's one product. So, I was just trying to connect the dots in my mind in in their case, but you suggest they have one product page in in in that situation.

Yeah. I mean, I still think you should have a product page. Like, I have a client that is uh it's a startup and yeah, they're they've got a homepage that's like their company level messaging and then they have one offering, but you still have a distinct page for that offering that's like cool. now I want to get into like the actual the product or the service or whatever. Um, but going back to what we were talking about before, in those instances, I think it makes more sense to like you can more quickly get to the the the point where it makes sense to have industry specific, use case specific, you know, like we have one product, but how do product marketers use it versus how do demand genen people use it? like I think that's when those those things start to make more sense instead of uh maybe at companies where you have like a suite of products, you know. So that's a good clarification though. Um so just to kind of keep quickly going through this is like you figure out this purplish level of like cool who are the people that care about this and what do they care about? And now what are the words they use? What are what do they feel? What are they about? And then you get to the point of like okay so what is the problem that we are solving for these people have just like the way that I do this and I can get into an example over here in a second but it's like it's just free form like the message is what matters. It's not you're not at this point you're not getting into the level of like we want to use this exact word but it's like this is the exact story we want to be telling. Uh I'll just use this example for a second. These are this is a B2B email marketing agency.

These are the people they sell to. This is the stuff they care about is like, you know, I like this like what can you get fired for not doing and what can you get promoted for doing? That's like the stuff you want to know. And so they these people at these companies in this specific instance, they care about getting big emails out on time, error-free, and that they like actually drive engagement. And so then you just do a little like couple paragraphs around like okay so email teams are under pressure to get this out like just sort of massage and understand so what's the problem that we can help these people figure out. Cool. And it it looks like so um because this is probably a good point is I when you've been talking about this in my mind I've been picturing software companies right product software product but the example you showed is uh an agency so you have the view that even agency companies should or yeah agencies should have the product page equivalent you know when talking about their services. Yeah, I do. And I mean, this is kind of just the luck of the draw of the example that I pulled to talk, but like I totally do. I think and I even think it's fine and maybe good to call them a product page because it's still like your even if you don't have a productized service as your like model, it's still the product that your company is selling. I don't think you would label it products in your drop down or whatever, but like yeah, for this for this client like they have a few different things that they help their customers do and one of them is email marketing, you know, like they do revops, they do other stuff, but like so the product here that we're talking about is like how do they do email marketing and so we're going to do all these things around the problem and the competitive alternatives and differentiation and the quote unquote features you'll see like these features are like we help you design your program. Like that's a thing I do as an agency, but that's like a feature of what you get when you when you work for me. So I just think it's a helpful same same as when we were talking about the like company level positioning, product level positioning like I just thinking about like your business as it's an organization that has products that has features is a helpful framework no matter sort of how you what you sell, you know. Yeah, sure. Cool. Um, so I keep derailing you here. Sorry. I'm not sure because at in the table on the left it says I think it says like primary use case jobs to be done. So like basic question but how how do you sort of determine that because I think this is um where a lot of people struggle is our product does all of these things. Yeah. we don't know, you know, what part of it to communicate and and part of this is a strategy issue, you know, um unclear on the ICP and who they're serving and so therefore how can you know what they care about? But yeah, just interested to hear your thoughts there. Yeah, so this this part should be all about this person. So this is like I work at Whoops, like B2B Tech. I'm like these are like big companies. am and I'm the email marketing director and so what's my primary job as this person like regardless of what I sell you know like get into the shoes of your person who's your buyer like what's their main thing that they are trying to accomplish at their job and that's when you get to this like I'm trying to get emails out I'm trying to make sure the lists are healthy I'm trying to make sure campaigns are on schedule and so you want to start there almost put the blinders on to your your service or your business or your product and be like what are they actually trying to accomplish and if you've picked the right ICP then hopefully your product actually helps them do that in a way you know and so then you can build on it from there. Sure. Yeah. Start start with the customer and then you you go on to the the table where you map the product to what the customer cares about.

Exactly. Exactly. Sure. Uh, so I love the derailing though. Feel free to keep derailing. This is good. This is why it's fun. Um, and not like a presentation. So then we've got the problem. Yeah. What is it? I think I think I stole this exact line from the guys at Fletch where it's like, why does this problem suck? I don't know. I just really like framing it like so just plain language like what is the problem? Yes, but like why does that actually why is that problem a bummer? Um then you get into how else could they solve the problem? So you're not like thinking about who are our competitors necessarily even though they are your competitors. You're thinking how else could these people do this thing? And so in this agency example, it's like they have a team that can do it or they have other agencies that can do it. And then you can kind of get into like sure let's get let's you know figure out this is just an example of what that can turn into in terms of content or whatever you know that's like cool these are the three things we figured out that they care about and these are how the different alternatives can or can't do those things and look our company can do all of them. Awesome. Uh then you get down to okay so I just like to always keep zooming out. So for these people, they're trying to solve this problem.

These are some other ways they can do it. So how are we different? How are we different? How are we better? A little blurb on that. And then you can get into here's all the ways that we do what we do. These are specific features of your product probably. Um, and then you can kind of just like go down the line. And all this is eventually helpful to sum up on in like messaging, but really it's also just clarifying to be like, okay, we have these dashboards in our product like dashboards. What what does that actually do? Like sometimes you don't think about what does that actually unlock for your customer? And then if they if that thing gets unlocked then what benefit do they have in their job in their life in their world and then what evidence like like how can you prove that that's true basically um and so in this proof section you can either have real like ROI like stats or whatever or it's just like what is the proof like in this we're going to help you design your programs and the pro proof is that they you'll see consistent improvement and engagement and results Like that's how you know we did we did this. Yeah. Just just two questions on this table, the the feature table. Yeah.

So the first one is do you get the client or or do you just list out all of the features relevant to that use case, relevant to that persona? Like is it kind of just get everything on paper and then maybe the next step is you prioritize which ones to actually talk about? Yeah, usually it's like let's get all of the stuff written down. The next step is typically okay, how typically you're going to see a handful that are like, oh, these can be consolidated. Yeah. Like yes, there's their distinct features, but now let's think about how do we want to actually talk about them. We can probably lump together all the reporting that we do, not every single dashboard and report that your product can can give you. Um, so then yeah, get them all on paper, consolidate them to a as short a list as you can while you still feel like it's integrity like has integrity of like the the truth. Um, and then figure out yeah the right way to talk about them. Awesome. Could could you just zoom in a bit on on the feature tail because I think the the distinction between like I mean we touched on this in a previous episode but it seems to constantly be a sticking point for people is the distinction between what a feature is, what capability is and what a benefit is. And so like in the feature column, let's say advanced report and it's like there's no like so what it's like okay well you know what what can I report on like what are the metrics and so that's where the capability comes in is like the functional thing you can do with that and then the visibility like I like the visibilities here where I think the the um uh Alicia who I spoke of in a previous episode I think she refers to it as like altitude is where you go to to a high altitude you start talking about like, you know, well, it's going to help you make more money and improve your conversions.

The benefit here is really at the the altitude that this persona cares about, which is, hey, well, you you can understand, I guess, what campaigns are working and what campaigns aren't working. And so, like the language used here is is very simple. It's clear. Um, and I think another sticking point is some people just go to that high altitude where they start, you know, throwing numbers in there. And I'm not numbers aren't necessarily a bad thing, but you know, going more to the realm of business outcomes. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And if you were going to put that anywhere, it would be in this last proof section. And that's why I like calling it proof instead of like outcome because it needs to be actually real and not like then you'll increase your revenue. It's like if you have that then like and when you do this you we see a revenue increase of this much. But most of our messaging is going to be on these first three where it's like this is literally what it is. This is literally what you can do. Like what what it unlocks for you to be able to do and this is why you will benefit from doing it. Um so yeah, I think that's a good call and like the proof matters, but think of it as like if you get all the way there and then somebody's like, "Okay, but like how do I know this is actually going to do those things?" Then you can do the high altitude stuff. Cool. No, this is cool.

Cool. Okay. Um I guess what what's next from here? Do you do you sort of condense these and prioritize the features to to decide what they they show? Yep. Exactly. So um you figure out cool what are how do we actually talk about all these things? Then you're like which ones are the most important or the most valuable when we get into the actual product page. uh you really want to start with even if you don't list all of them like as a full like here's the value prop and an image and every like for every single feature which you shouldn't do you probably will have like a list somewhere bullet points of like plus we do all this stuff but you kind of pick what are the top three that either are our most differentiated or just we hear all the time like this is the most valuable thing and sometimes you don't know like sometimes you spend all this time building this something and people are like I just love that dashboard, you're like, "Okay, well, let's lead with that." Like, if people love it, then let's let's at least put that in the top thing. So, yeah, you kind of start here and then you come back to this when you're building your page. Um, and I do like the idea of just like stack ranking them in terms of either differentiation or like perceived value. Cool. And I guess just uh cuz I know you do this for clients, who who's in the room when you're doing this? Is this like a collaborative exercise? Is it more like, you know, homework? The client takes it away and and and does it or Yeah, the the way I do it is I have like a like a form that people fill out and they will do that before we meet.

Um, and then the first meeting I have, I will have like this kind of sketched in and we'll be like, let's talk through. I made some guesses. I made some assumptions. Let's see. Tell me where I'm wrong. But I'll say 90% of the time that first call we spend on this purple stuff. It's like we got to nail this because then usually what will happen is like okay cool. We really figured this out. Everything else below it is now no longer relevant. Like I will go back and kind of make sure because they really build on themselves. So um and who's in the room it's usually like a founder or a head of mark like marketing people and then executive level like business people you know. Um but for like smaller teams I'm working with it's like it's a founder or it's a founder and like a head of marketing. um who are the smaller the better because once you get like once you get this my whole my like aim for people is like put a lock on this for at least a quarter because this blueprint is what you're going to use to build your pages to build your any other assets really like um and if you can commit to like not really changing it for a quarter it's going to be really helpful. Um so you you you raised a fair point there. I mean it's not my uh it's not my area but I don't um I see a situation where you could easily turn take this stuff this the the output from this exercise and use it for like sales enablement materials um you know decks one pages where you're talking about the product um 100%. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I'm that's why I say like your product page should be your like best product marketing asset. Um, in this we we take this and we turn it into a product page.

But yeah, this is like of the two things I deliver to clients, you get this and you get like the copy on for your page. And this one's very valuable because then you're like, cool, take it, give it to your content people, they can write blogs, they can write one pages, they can make decks. Like these are this I like calling it a blueprint because I think of it as the foundation of like all the stuff you're going to build about this product. This is how we want to talk about it. Yeah. like a central. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, exactly. So, the last one is is getting into like the details of messaging. So, if you if you get all the way down to the bottom of the funnel, then you're like, cool. So, how do we actually talk about this? And this is our oneline like what do we do? Like, what does this product do? And then you can get this is where it starts to get more detailed in terms of like what are some oneliners we like to say? What's the one sentence, the hundred words? And then I am a fan of just like you have a bunch of values. Let's just try to whittle it down to like three core value props that this product provides. They can have some sub sub points and bullets and stuff, but this stuff really helps um when you start writing the page. And I I give a a disclaimer on my like workshop or my calls with clients. I'm like this at this stage, we're talking about the story. We're talking about the message.

We're not talking about the very specific words. We get there. Um, but the the farther down you go, the more specific the words start to matter, too. So, I think it's like helpful to kind of visualize it that way because at the bottom of this, it's like, yeah, most of these are most of these words are exactly the words we're going to end up using. Um, which helps to your point before like this is the main thing that you can give to other people to then go start building more content. Yeah. No, really nice. And and so from here is what what steps would you take the client through next? Cuz it did it feels like we're almost at the the finished product here. Yeah. Yeah, we're close. So what happens next is then um I go away and I take this and I write a like wireframe of their page. And so I will give some light suggestions. I'm like, maybe do a layout, maybe do this kind of layout, do your problem section here, blah blah blah. And then we'll kind of go through the same process of like, okay, now that we've translated this into a a wireframe of a product page, what do we think? Cuz it looks like some of these oneliners, they look different when they're actually like next to an image. And what image makes sense where?

And so it's basically the process of taking this and turning it into an asset. and you do the same thing if you're doing it turn it into a one pager or a deck or something. Um, and then I just have this like checklist that I think through um when I'm writing pages and you talked about it before like they're not all the same and I like that's what I like about product page. I think I write that on here too. It's like they can be they can all be very different um in terms of what goes first and how it looks and uh but there's some foundational things and I just have this list that's like okay cool. Does the hero do this? Does it check the box and help me? Does the social proof section show that I've done this before and it's believable? It's honest. It's rel. So, I get I kind of just use this to like make sure of all the best practices and stuff that I've seen like it's it's fitting enough. I don't I don't want it to look like everybody else's or like feel like everybody else's, but it's like checking all the right boxes. Um and then and then you kind of go from there. Cool.

No, I like it. Um what what sections? So, we've got hero, social proof, problem, features, show me, uh, use case, call to action. Okay, cool. Can we can we walk through the the hero section cuz argued to be one of the most important ones? Let's see. Um, it matters. Yeah, I'll just walk through the the bullets I have here. So, I learned this thing from Eddie Schlainer. I don't know if he calls it if if he named it. I don't know if this is a thing somewhere else, but I learned it from him about a primer. I like to have it's just like very very specific. So, this example is like this big fancy cup of coffee. How would you write it as primer copy? It would be like coffee, milk, and sugar. Like that's what you get. Okay. Extreme clarity. Interesting. Okay. It's very much like I like to put that in the eyebrow text, you know? So, it's like I don't know. Is that is that a term that you know? No, but I I instantly know what you're I I Yeah, I usually call it like a call out or something, but I know exactly. It's like the small right above small text right above the H1. Exactly. I like to be like, you know, this is, you know, in this primer be like canned beverage or something, you know, it's like it's exactly what it is. Like usually that's the the category that you are in. So, if you come back here, that's why I like to call out like what's your product category because you might not want to call yourself this, but like that's what people know you as, you know, um or that's what people are shopping for when they go. So, extreme clarity headline that's less than 10 words that is very much like uh helping me understand what aisle of the grocery store I'm in. So, first it's very very clear. Then it's like a little more you can be more like this is the aisle of cool fun snacks, not like this is a potato chip. You know what I mean? So, it's like a little bit more of like how you think you want to be perceived, but it's still clear, still you can get more creative.

And then the sub headline is explaining the job that you're accomplishing. So, like that's where that jobs to be done kind of comes back is like this is what we're going to actually do for you. This is the the the what my product accomplishes for you. Um and then there's just other kind of like CRO best practices. Is there definitely a CTA? Is it clear? Um have you killed all the stuff that is not helpful? Um and then the image. Is there an image up there that no one else can use? I like framing it like that because it doesn't have to be anything in particular, but if it's like stock image or if it's like a screenshot or it's something that you could copy and paste and put onto a competitor's website and it wouldn't be like, "Whoa, that's weird." You probably shouldn't have that as your first image. This is cool. This is really detailed stuff. I mean, everyone loves a checklist. Um, I'm going to have to check this out afterwards. Yeah, everyone loves a checklist. This is my one plug is like you can get this uh you can download this on my website. Yeah, nice. I'll link it for sure. What about the feature section then? Let's go to the features. Um, this is where we talked a little bit about like you've got your list. Are we are we uh starting with our best thing? Um, and so by the time you get to the features, typically either people scroll quickly to get there or they're like, I'm I'm scanning, you know? And so I like the the standard B2B like there's there's an image on one side, there's a H2 and some subtext and then it kind of alternates back and forth. So making sure you've got if you're picking three, start with your best one. Um it start with what is different. Like basically if everyone in your category has a feature that even if you think that feature is awesome, if everyone has it, it's not probably worth like you might waste some space putting it up there, you know? So do the thing that's like, oh that's different. That's that's unique. And then you can call out like and of course we have blah blah blah like everyone else does too. Um like I said, just make sure it's easy to scan. I like using bold words, highlighting text, like it's it's got to be very scannable. Um, and then, oh, visuals. Yeah. Again, just like very very much your actual product or again like it's interesting with service and stuff. It's just like stuff that can't be copy and pasted onto your competitor's site. That would make that would be like, oh, make sense basically.

Um, and then I think that if a random person can read your features and understand it, but your ideal person can read it and be like, "Oh, yeah. I love it." Like, that's a good barometer. You don't want to be so narrow on your ICP that it's like a random person reads and is like, "I have literally no idea what this does at all." But you want to be specific enough and not so broad that you're like speaking to people that would never buy your your thing. Yeah, this is really good stuff. I like this. There's lots to go through here. Um, okay, cool. This is you you'll love this last section just cuz like sure, you know, it's your thing. I think something there needs to be some version of like when you get past the features I need to get to the spot that's like okay but like how does it work or what is it like show actually show me it in some way um and you'll see this is like this is kind of bare I don't have a lot other than just like make make sure there's something real that that people can see you know um I like it find the flagable this is this has been really interesting I mean it's a comprehensive process. Um, definitely not something you can wing. Um, are there any product pages in the wild that you're you just love? Like, are there ones you've added to your swipe file or product pages that you constantly go back to and reference or or or keep an eye on? It's a good question.

I I recently have been interested in like, you know, I've talked I've had some clients in the like service industry and stuff and I'm interested in how they're doing that. Um, so I've been looking into a lot of that. There's one company, um, now I'm blanking on the name of it. Oh, uh, it's got Hog in the name. What is it? Post Hog. Post Hog. Yeah. Yeah, Post Hog. Is it Post Hog? Yeah, they they are like um they've got a lot going on on their website, you know, and like it's they're they're for developers and stuff, but I think their product pages are like they have a ton of them because they have them by roll and by goal and by product type and like it it looks like their product in a way. I'm guessing here, let me just share my screen to like I mean there's a lot going on on this website, right? There's a ton going on, but like I like it because it's so different. Um, so let me back up. If you land on Well, mine was in dark mode. I don't know how I did that. Oh. So, if you go to products, you're like, uh, very quickly you're like, whoa, I know all the products they do at least. And I mean, what's interesting about them is they're showing how many people are like or like, you know, their their pricing is really interesting.

But then if you get into each one, it looks a little bit more like what you'd expect out of a product page. Um, and they know their audience, you know, it's really detailed developer people. It's like a lot of like gra a lot of detail. Um, it's it's very information dense, but they they seem to have pulled it off somehow. Yeah, like I said, it matters who you sell to. Um, but what they what they could do, I would actually I didn't think about this, but I would love to take one of these and run it through my checklist and see how much of it is like true, you know, but I feel like a lot of it would be. Um, and you have to think about your audience. But what they could do for sure because I think they're productled anyway is like this. I would not need to talk to somebody if I was actually buying a tool like this. I could land on their product page and I could probably know everything I ever need to know and then purchase their stuff, you know? Sure. I would not need to be handheld. It's probably cuz you don't see many product pages like this.

I wonder if it's because of their of who they target, you know, developers, engineers, technical people where they're used to going through like really in-depth documentation. Um, and so may I'm feeling part of that documentation has just been put on like the website itself. Um, because I don't see many other websites doing this. It's true. It's and that's I think why I remembered it, you know, it was like this is different. Um, and I'm sure it's performing for them and I like how they ride and like they're funny kind of and so they got a nice brand with the hedgehog and stuff. Yeah, it's cool. So I I kind of want to dig more into this and see. Um it's kind of like they've got even some of the they've got a lot going on and like you said like yeah I can literally like download like start using their stuff you know so they're it's it's a good point I think how you sell who you sell to is it productled is it salesled is it cons consultative like all that kind of impacts your page because how like your page could be like your best sale sales asset and like even your salesperson in some ways. Yeah, for sure. It it I think that's that's a huge point. Um cuz I speak with people a lot and it seems like what's on the website, whether it be homepage, product pages, is completely misaligned with like what they're saying on sales calls or what they have stored inside their messaging document. You know, pretty much every particularly in B2B, almost all of your customers are going to go onto your website. They're gonna um read it. They're gonna spend time on it. And so that should be like the most up-to-date version of how you communicate your product. Exactly. So yeah, I think that's a good point. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm like, if you're going to update anything, make sure the website's up to date because you can use it as an internal thing, but also people can no one's just going to stumble upon your one pager. You have to send it to them. People will stumble upon your website. So make sure that's your best foot forward. For sure. Sure, man. All right. Cool. It's been really valuable.

Should we wrap it there or or any other thoughts? I feel like that's a good a good spot to land the plane. Sweet. All right. Cheers, Logan. Cool.