$1M ARR in 90 days for this B2B SaaS startup | Andre Haykal Jr, founder of ListKit tells the story

all right so today I'm joined by Andre um I've had the pleasure to know Andre over the last year or so after I joined a coaching program he runs um a genuinely nice guy and an operator through and through who's achieved some cool stuff which we're gonna dive into Andre good to have you man um could you give the listeners just a quick rundown of who you are and what you do yeah absolutely thank you for having me on Liam it's cool man I think we first met uh at the cigar bar here in Tampa when you first arrived to the US uh for the client Ascension event we hosted and uh that was a great time and um it's it's cool to see kind of how things have evolved since then uh with the London event and really everything that's just happened within the communion with you um but my background is as you mentioned I'm an operator um business owner I I run a coaching program called client Ascension a Le genen agency called knowledge X um and now building a SAS company called list kit and so yeah really just an entrepreneur at heart always working on multiple Ventures and uh trying to create great products and solutions to help people with uh lead generation nice okay so we're gonna dive into list kit for the main bulk of this um but before that if you're okay Sharon like what's the combined revenues for like all of your your Ventures together yeah I mean this year we'll do over $5 million in Revenue across the three businesses nice big numbers okay okay um so let's dive a bit into your background a bit because you have from what I I know of of you so far you have quite an interested background you know entrepreneurship runs through the the blood um so how long have you been doing this like this online business stuff um you know why did you get started you know can we we dig into that a bit yeah absolutely so the two biggest role models in my life were my dad and my grandpa um both of who were entrepreneurs so my dad was born in Lebanon and then moved to the US when he was around 13 or 14 and because of the language barrier and just all the stuff he had to grow up around um he struggled in school and so school is never really for him and so he got out of school and just pursued entrepreneurship with great success um and so I grew up watching a really successful hardworking entrepreneur in him and then on my mom's side the way their F family came up was again very humble um her dad who was my grandpa was you know like a gym teacher and a math teacher for the longest time and then when he was in his 40s or 50s he started a coupon book business and that really took off and so then that side of the family also spun an entrepreneurship and so the two biggest Role Models I grew up around were hardworking successful entrepreneurs and so I always knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur and the first taste of Entrepreneurship uh was just reselling sneakers on the internet um I remember I was like forced to get a job as soon as I turned 16 because that's when you were old enough to get a job in the US and like as soon as I got that job I hated it day one and I the goal was to try to get out of it as soon as possible and the only way I'd be able to get out of it because my dad and my mom they're very strict they want me working and making my own money was to find a side hustle and so reselling sneakers was my side hustle um and then that turned into just more online business through agencies and marketing and all that sort of stuff nice when when did you actually start knowledge X because that for for a while that was kind of like your main thing right yeah knowx started in 2018 so around 5 years ago at this point um wow yeah but I've been an entrepreneurship for around eight or nine years and so like knowledge X was the first taste of real success and so that didn't come for yeah really three or four years in entrepreneurship I was struggling and and just not able to really see anything take off nice okay and what what sort of motivated you to to get into the world of SAS you know very different agency yeah so again my grandpa's like my number one influencer and every time I have a conversation with him he started in the coupon book business which is selling physical products like these coupon books all across the us and that did very well they exited uh coupon businesses like twice at this point and he's he's happy with that but their real success came after with software um and so he's always been telling me like you got to get into software you gotta have stickiness you have to have recurring like all these keywords that you hear people talk about to go for that big exit um and so I always knew getting into business like the ultimate goal because I saw my grandpa exit multiple companies was to exit like the Big Exit that's the the the one thing I've always worked towards and so I knew SAS or software some form of it um had to be the answer because with an agency the exits aren't very exciting or common um and with a coaching program same thing and so I knew that if I could build a client base in a community in a personal brand around an agency like a done for you service and then a coaching program like a done with you community I could figure out a sass that can slot in and be value at to all those people yeah so to talk about that and we'll talk about the differences between like agency and Sass in a bit but you you guys have built um what's known as like a value ladder right Russell Brunson concept um where you've kind of got this uh the value ladder that um leads Ascend through through right so you've got the the done for you they're done with you the software um and they're all tugged in like the same Niche right it's all related around cold outbound is this is this by design has this always been sort of like the master plan by Design exactly so we call it the offer ecosystem same thing right and I always got the question early on is like how are you running multiple businesses and I always looked at it as the same business all together because there's a software Department there's a coaching department and there's a done for you or a service Department all servicing the same clients with the same end goal and so the way we look at client ension knowledge X and Lis kit is they're all achieving the same umbrella Vision which is to help business owners generate more leads Lis kit does it through providing a software tool client Ascension does it through providing a community and coaching and then knowledge X does it through providing like done for you actual services and it just makes it easier to cross pollinate because if someone starts in client Ascension they eventually sign up for list kit because we teach them how to get leads using list kit if someone starts with Lis kit they do it themselves they realize they need help they go into client Ascension or they just buy our services like our done for you agency and so customers yeah they go through list kit client Ascension and knowledge X most people that work with us go through all three offers at some point over the course of a year or two wow so you've kind of built this this sort of growth Loop right where you're constantly upselling people to the to the next stage and obviously the be your software then becomes recurring Revenue um yeah that's don't hear of many people like building that kind of ecosystem um yeah okay so let's talk a bit about list kit the the main star of the the show um are you happy to share the the current revenue and what that's been like over the last few months because you only launched recently right yes so we're very new to the market I mean we've been working on Lis kit for two and a half years at this point so the way we started Lis kit was as um like a concierge service where someone would request a leads list and then behind the scenes our team would manually build that leads list and put it together and send it to them within 24 hours we knew the end goal was always SAS or software but in the beginning we needed to test the validity of the service in general and that's something I learned like early on because I had like an app idea that I tried to launch back in college and I never tested the market to see if they actually wanted it and so I spent a bunch of money on resources like developers and and design and as soon as it got to Market it flopped because no one actually wanted it and so I reversed it with list kit to see is this something that people actually want um and then we were able to use the cash flow from the the service or the consur thing in the beginning to actually fund the development of the software and so that was like the key to success in the beginning and over the over that time we built up a really great customer base we had a couple hundred customers that purchased list kit services and then of course we have client Ascension which is full of people that need Lis kit and then we at our agency a bunch of clients that also need list kit and so as soon as we launched I mean like we were at a huge uh Head Start and So within the first 90 days the revenue numbers that we have been sharing is within the first 90 days I think at this point we're at like day 110 or 115 but within 90 days we were able to achieve a million dollars in ARR because of that Foundation we had coming into it and of course the product is is extremely solid and the community and The Branding but there's a lot that goes into it um but yeah in 90 days million do AR uh which we're super excited about yeah that's crazy and you know the beauty of SAS is you've you've essentially created multi-millions of dollars in Enterprise Value in 90 days but of course the the whole journey wasn't 90 days I'm sure there's a lot of sweat Blood and Tears and um maybe we can talk about that but yeah to achieve that kind of figure in in 90 days is crazy like it takes the average company years to to get that so and yeah it's on our website it's on our website I think um for web Summit which is an event we're going to be attending this upcoming week in Lisbon um which is just like a tech event but on our website for that event it's US versus Apollo it took us 90 days and it took Apollo five years um to get to exactly where we're at which is is crazy to think about that's crazy and we we'll talk about how maybe you're you're different to Apollo in a second but I don't I think you touched on it briefly but what is the kind of what does Lis kit do you know what's who's it for what does it do yes so the original idea for list kit was as an agency owner myself I was spending way too much time building leads list for our clients when I needed to be spending most of my time actually sending out the emails right it's the same problem that a lot of sales teams have is they have their sdrs and their accting acts building and prospecting leads and not actually sending and in being engaging conversation with those people because if you're just looking at a lead on on a screen like you're not going to be able to close them um or do anything with them and generate cash from them and so you need to be spending all of your hours calling and talking and texting and emailing um but because leads are very hard to scrape with tools like Zoom info and Apollo and everything else that's available we needed a better solution so we had kind of built a step-by-step way of doing things in the house that leverage vas like cheap labor um but still it was expensive because you're using manual work uh and not only is it expensive but it took a long time and there were people to manage and so the logistics were not ideal and so I knew there had to be a better way um and really what we did with Lis kit is figure out how can we ex get into this platform that is Lis kit find our exact ICP which is essentially who we want to send emails to get as many of those leads as we want not be limited to how many we could select per page or per month right it's all credit based however many you want to pay for you can get out of the platform within minutes and then exit off and and go do your thing send the emails so list kit is essentially this platform it's it's list building for dummies like we want you to go in get your leads and get out like we don't want you to be spending all day on this kit um and so it's it's just a tool that is able to equip you with a verified leads list and that's the other big part of it as well is the leads are triple verified and so you know that the list that you're receiving from us you can confidently plug it into your smart lead or your instantly or whatever sending tool you're using to write right away uh start sending out emails sure yeah okay cuz that I mean some I think in terms of awareness of of cold email I think the market as a whole has has quite a a long way to go like you and I you know I do cold emailing you've been doing cold emailing for a long while now but there's actually a lot of companies out there that are still you know sending emails off primary domains doing like 40 emails per day 50 emails per day like so how how important is that part of list kit where the the leads are verified like why does that matter why should people care about that yeah so it's the most important part it's like you're paying for data right and so you want to pay for data that's actually good like would you go and pay for a phone number where you call them and you can't actually connect like No And so it's the same concept with email it's like if you email this person and it never actually gets sent to that person why should you have have to pay for that email um and not only is it like a missed opportunity but it's also going to affect the emails that you send to verify contacts as well because with every email you send that bounces back it hurts your sender reputation with with people like Google to the point where they're going to start taking you out of the Inbox and moving you into spam even for emails that are verified and so it has a negative effect even on the rest of the list that is verified and you you hit a great point which you could get into more of as well like SAS strategy right the big part of the the reason why we've seen such quick growth is because we've created our Tam and what that means is like not many people know about cold email and so we first educate people on cold email and because we're the one to educate them on it they're listening to our advice and recommendations on the tools they should use so they're not even looking at Apollo versus list kit they only know of list kit because they learn everything from us and so we're creating buyers number one um and that's it number one um but the other thing to mention here is that's what Russell Brunson did as well right with clickfunnels is he created a market for uh funnel Builders or funnel hackers as he says yeah you're you're kind of um you're you're you're squeezing the market for as much juice as possible because you're you're kind of training people how to do this thing and you're providing all the tools and resources for them to do that thing as well and so it's kind of indoctrination in in a way you know hey is this new way of doing cold outbound you can build a business and by doing it you can build your own business or help others build their businesses and by the way we're going to provide you with all the tools and resources to one send those emails but two like um get good results with with those emails as well yeah it's very similar to Russell Bronson where he kind of he was up against like uh website Builders and he was like well I didn't want to be a website builder so he created the well he sort of introduced the category of of funnel Builders this sort of new opportunity of doing things um okay and we will touch on the how the power of content because I think that's um something people need to lean into a bit more um now I know um you're you're an operator at heart that's kind of your responsibility in in all of your companies and so I'd be very surprised if you didn't have an in-depth launch strategy planned for for Lisk um May maybe it was just uh you know um it was all Scrappy and there wasn't a plan but you know was there was there structure behind that and you know could you just talk us through at a high level what was the plan how did you sort of deliver um as much of an impact to the market and grow to that Revenue in such a a short period of time yeah so I mean the first part of the plan was to get the product to the point where we were confident enough to put it out into the market and that was a tough thing to balance right because I always knew I could not it would not be fully up to standard before we launch but at some point we had to launch because the development cost and how much money we had in the bank like it was getting very close and we're fully boost strap so we didn't have a bunch of capital to just continue to pull from um and we were in development for over two years like list kit we spent over $200,000 developing the thing before we even saw revenue from the Sass launch and so we were you know getting really close to the point where we just had to launch it one way or the other um but that was Focus priority number one is is product um and then once we were confident around having a good product again it was kind of easier for us because of all the work we did leading up to we knew we could do a big announcement and a big launch into client Ascension we knew we could do a big launch um to all of the clients at knowledge X we knew we could do a big launch to existing customers or uh past purchasers of the done for you list kit service and then we also had a really nice email list built up across myself Daniel Christian Oliver Dan like our email list and personal Brands um and on Twitter and so the the plan was initially to do like product hunt and to do like a lot of marketing to sell the product but we kind of pivoted the plan right before we launched it and instead we went the route of just telling the liset story um and so a lot of people remember this before we launched liset for like two or three weeks before we sent daily emails and even daily tweets just telling the Lis kit story because we haven't really told it before where we had this idea we we you know encountered a lot of um a lot of Road early on we spent a lot of money we didn't think we'd ever even launch and the fact that we now are launching we just appreciate anyone's support so we didn't really touch on the product and what's so great about it we just hit on the story and why someone should want to support what we've spent so much time in in money building and I think that got the buying so as soon as we launched people were just buying because they've listened to our story of an underdog going up against people who've raised funding like Apollo and zoom info and they just wanted to support whatever it was a lot of people just bought and had no idea what the product was until after they bought because they read and got so bought into our story through that email sequence um and then of course again we had a lot of partnership deals like with client Ascension and some of the other bigger communities out there that teach gold Outreach um like affiliate deals and whatnot um but that was really it we put the product out there oh the big thing that we decided as well last minute that changed everything was the school Community GNA mention that the community surrounding the software is so key because like there's so many people using the software they also need Community to ask questions and provide support and provide feedback and so the school Community we're up to like 780 uh members in the school Community we're posting in there every single day we're running promos and discounts and then even better in the classroom section of the school Community is probably the best course on cold email that you can find on the internet that doesn't cost anything it's like an a toz overview of how to do cold email Outreach like anyone no matter how much experience they have with cold email can go into our school Community for free go to the classroom section watch all the videos and know everything there is to know about cold email Outreach and that was all game changer um it's just giving them everything up front nice yeah I'll drop the link of that in the description I'm actually a member and damn you're active in there I think I was getting like my my notifications were set to like hourly and so I was just getting notifications all the time like you're you're you're keeping everyone like engaged in there you're you're adding like a lot of value through the cold email course I see you're doing like promotions and and stuff like that um I I was going to bring that up but yeah it's it's interesting the story because um people are obviously going to automatically hear the 1 million Revenue in in 90 days but what they don't hear is the two-year journey to get there the the over 200k spent I'm sure there were moments where you were probably like okay okay you know let's call it quit or you know um but you stay towards the vision and you know you've probably made that money back like already or or you're well on your way to to make it back um so looking back you know over the last two years what would you have done differently based on you know the the knowledge you've gained now yeah number one thing is just bringing a CTO um I mean that's really where we credit all the success to uh for why we're where we're at today I always had the vision and it's it's kind of interesting because my background in all the other businesses I'm involved in is really like the operator or the integrator but with Lis kit it's more of the Visionary like I always saw the end product it was just this very crystallized picture in my brain like for two years um but I couldn't communicate it effectively and I couldn't find a CTO or a a developer really that could bring it to life um and so exactly like you said uh about a year ago we were at the point where we had spent over $125,000 at this point in development expenses with nothing to show for like literally nothing what we had delivered was a really nice UI with no functionality and no real data um housed inside and so we were like 100% like let's just give up the only reason we wanted to continue list kit was to provide that value out to client Ascension students because when you sign up for client Ascension you get a certain amount of free Lis kit credits right and we didn't want to take that away and so we kept going we we kind of turned Focus away from it for a while and it wasn't until the same event uh we met at I met Oliver who was one of the students in cention and we're talking about Lis he knew about it just from our tweets and our content and we just hit it off that that first night we met and I could tell he really understood like the vision and the technicality behind it all um and so right away I I figured hey let's give this one more shot let's partner with ol see if him and his team of developers could actually bring this thing to life and surely he did within six months after we met and and put a deal together early this year we launched um and the product is amazing as you'll hear from you know a lot of our users and our reviews on on places like G2 and um yeah the biggest thing was that you just you really do need someone in the business that is like fully dedicated to the CTO role um at least if you're doing something to the level of Lis because it's not just some like like micro SAU like a lot of people are launching nowadays or like a noode SAU like it's fully custom like there is real IP behind it that is extremely impressive and there's no way I could have done that myself or even found developers or a team of developers to do it for me without a CTO dedicated to that role yeah yeah that makes sense um okay so you're you're kind of like you said you're the sort of Underdog in this in this space you're taking on these you know unicorns basically lots of funding behind them probably teams of hundreds maybe thousands of employees you know um how are you going to how are you going to take them down like what's the plan what what does the the sort of road map look like for Lis kit how how are you beating them today like you know could you just speak a bit about that yeah I think the core Focus for us is content and Community um so part of our story is is we're creating this product for ourselves who are dissatisfied with these competitors that are now competitors of this Tool uh Apollo and zoom info and everyone else that's out there and so this is a tool for cold emailers built by cold emailers and that's kind of like our tagline um and that also puts us in a great position to educate the community on what does effective cold email actually look like and that's what we've done so well through our school community and we'll continue to do really well with then the same thing with Russell Brunson um like with clickfunnels everyone knows clickfunnels is not the best and most sound and reliable product but why do people go and continue to use clickfunnels and buy clickfunnels it's because of the community that Russell has built around it the education that he provides around it the events that he does around it and that's kind of the same pathway we're looking to take with Lis kit um because we have cold email Mastery which is like the most legendary the most successful course uh for cold email like of all time we have client Ascension which is a fast growing agency coaching program that teaches people cold email um and we just have a lot of great minds that have a lot of success sending cold emails and so if we can bring people into a really good product and keep it as simple as possible because what we see our other competitors doing is they try to do everything um like they try to be the sending tool and the data provider or the CRM the sending tool and the data provider whereas for us like we only want to be the data provider like we'll do part Partnerships with smart lead we'll eventually hopefully do Partnerships with other sending tools like quick M and instantly as well we only want to provide data and we just want to be the best at providing that data and then also wrapping uh the education around everything you do um and partnering with some of these sending tools to do seamless Integrations like we have currently with with smart lead and so that's how I think we win we double down on just the one use case of Lis kit and then build a great community and education around it nice love it I like it Focus um so I want to switch gear a bit and talk about coldo because um you you mentioned something there which you know sparked in in my mind about coldo Mastery how it's like the biggest greatest course of all time and I I don't think people quite understand the impact that did have on the market um like I think it it's like grossed over a million in in in revenue and you know i' I'd be actually I'd love to know the kind of Enterprise Value or impact that has had on like the coldo space you know how many people it's enabled to start businesses to like help other businesses like it's absolutely crazy um I know you've been doing cold email for a while like do you have any sort of interestes in stories to share about what um you've been able to achieve of cold email or like you know what doors it has it has opened for you yeah so I mean that's a great question and something I always am thinking about is like what impact did Cil Master truly have well it created me right that's how I first really found out about cold m is by going through that course and then eventually partnered with Daniel and and am now the one that created the 2.0 version of that course that's also close to now generating another million dollars on the relaunch and so like the impact that that course has had is not just teaching people how to do cold email but it's like every cold email agency every Legion agency owner that we know from like ourspace on Twitter they all started with that program um which is just really cool to think about about um in terms of cold email though like what you can do with cold email first off like when we started de the first three months we burned through all $6,000 that we had in our bank account trying to generate leads through Facebook ads and at the time we had no idea what we were doing now I know like when you're starting a brand new company you don't run paid ODS until you have a proven offer with a proven funnel and a proven sales process um but we have like no money left and that's why Cold email was so great at the time and still is today is because it's very inexpensive it's probably the cheapest form of acquisition um and so we were able to launch gold email campaigns for very cheap you know with money out of our own pocket start to generate calls and then close those calls and start to support you know cash flow to scale those campaigns so that's not like a specific story but that's what actually saved our business in the first place um other cool stories with cold Outreach is we used it for our podcast to get some really big name guests um like through cold email we were able to to do a podcast episode in Gary vanderchuck's office right in New York City like the infamous office and you know YouTube videos that everyone sees um we were also able to connect with Rob gronowski who's like a famous NFL football player for steak dinner um which are not super business related but it just shows what cold email can do for you um and then you hear stories all the time like Alex horos he talked about in his book $100 million leads the importance of cold email Outreach as a as a lead as a lead generation channel for the acquisition value that he got um we also had a student in client Ascension this is the only I'm not going to say his name but there's one student in client Ascension who joined and exited his agency within the six months of joining for over eight figures and the reason he was able to do so was because he strapped on cold Emil as another acquisition source and he was super successful coming in a client Ascension so it's not like we just birthed this agency that then went on to exit in a couple of months but just by bolting on cold email as another you know source of acquisition the valuation he was able to get skyrocketed and so cold email is a really powerful tool whether you want to get Podcast interviews you want to get job opportunities right because it's not just for business owners and entrepreneurs um or if you want to just add value to your Enterprise absolutely yeah I mean I I I see the value in it like even even if let's say you want to start a business you can do it to to validate your idea right U you know to hop on calls with people that kind of stuff um so let's talk about content um so you've managed to build quite a following online um you know personal brand uh you're on Twitter um I found you on Instagram the other day you've got like over 10,000 followers there I think um I think you're on LinkedIn you're on YouTube you've got a podcast um how important do you think it is when it comes to online business having a personal brand and I'll I'll kind of preface this because as somebody previously myself who had a limi in belief about having a personal brand I kind of looked at it at it as well you know they're clearly not building a business if they've got time to to post content you know just focus on building a business why are you posting content but um I think honestly content um today has become one of the biggest levers you can use to to build a business so I'd be interested to to hear your thoughts on this absolutely and I had the same limiting belief as julam like and it's not it wasn't even just a limiting belief of looking at others it was also at myself as like how can I create content when I'm so busy doing all of these things and just like with anything you figure out Frameworks and systems that you can work in to get content out more consistently like one of the biggest game changers for me was I listened to a talk from Ravi abuvala who's really successful in the coaching space and he said the same thing like I just don't have time to create content I'm busy doing business stuff um and so what you would do is just schedule out one day a month for content and it makes a lot of sense too because instead of recording one YouTube video every day or one once a week if you do it all in one day you get into the flow and the content is actually higher quality the more you do it and then you don't have to worry about it for another month you could go back to you know business activities and so there's again systems and Frameworks that you can figure out to get over that barrier that we're talking about here um but it it's everything man I mean again the reason kit got off to such a fast start is because people knew who I was they liked who I was and they trusted what I was building and it wasn't just because of the content I was sharing but I talked about list kit for two years on Twitter before we even launched and so people were waiting for this big launch and again like we had people that supported the launch without even knowing what the tool was or why they were buying it they just wanted to support because it's a story that they've been reading into for the past two years on Twitter from this guy that they've been following um and so it's such an advantage and again it's something we've seen Russell Brunson do really well with like Russell Brunson and clickfunnels is kind of who we molding after uh with what we're building here at Lis kit and so yeah content marketing is everything I get the limiting belief and the excuse that you don't have time and you're busy in the business but again there's ways around it um I even struggle like I don't get a lot of content out recently because I've just been so busy with the launch and part of it is now I could get on podcast right this is a great hack because I could do this 40 Minute Podcast and come up with ideas for Threads and Snippets and shorts and whatever else but yeah you have to put yourself out there um because if not like they're just going to hear about the next solution anyways so it's either they hear about you or they hear about your competitor it's just really difficult to win business if you're not out there consistently yeah I like it yes same as anything you can if it's kind of with with content if you put a lot of work up front to to build out those Frameworks uh those those systems um and then it's just about for me I you know the first 60 Minutes of every day I I work on um either writing content or uh coming up with ideas um because I see it as one of the highest leverage things in my business right now what's the alternative pumping loads of money uh into ads which I don't want to do for my agency right now or you know other things that that I might not enjoy it's definitely one of the the biggest levers um so last couple of questions here you you mentioned Sonic there you're so busy at the moment like how does one stay so motivated and organized when running you know a multi-million dollar coaching program a an agency um and now a SAS company like how do you manage all of this yeah it really just comes down to team right so like I have a great team of co-founders first off with Oliver who's our CTO at list kid and then with Daniel who's really the marketer genius behind client Ascension and cold M Mastery and now even list kit and then Dan he covers everything sales related at Lis kit and at client Ascension and then Christian um is like my right-and man he's like the Swiss army knife that really can help with anything especially copyrighting like one thing that I'm learning more and more about SAS is like you have to have a flow for everything for when they purchase for when they sign in for when they don't sign in um for when they churn or cancel you you need it all right right and so you're just constantly writing emails and so I don't have to worry about doing those because Christian has it handled um and then we have a great person uh for intercom support Canan who we actually found through the client Ascension program um and then we have a great cold email Outreach team with an inbox manager and someone that is there to handle like request where we send out 50 free leads to people that want to see a sample of what lit data actually looks like so we we just have a great team and so what that's allowed me to do is focus in on like who are the managers or who are the team leads and what information what updates do I need from them um to you know uh inform the work that I need to be doing that week and so it is a lot to manage there's multiple people involved but because it's so departmentalized like Oliver manages the software team so I don't have to worry about software Dan manages the sales team so I don't have to worry about sales Daniel and Christian really handle all the marketing so I don't have to worry about marketing so it allows to stay in like my um zone of Genius which is really like product and then team and Leadership meeting with each of those seeing what they need um and how I can support it through different action items throughout the week so it's it's great team um and then the motivation is like again that big exit's the the thing I've been after since I first learned about entrepreneurship um and so that's the prize and I know that we're we're in an opportunity zone right now where it has to be now like we've gotten it already to this point in the first 90 or 100 days and we can't take our foot off the gas like we need to just continue scaling this thing because these opportunities like these are unicorn opportunities that don't come around often and it'd be a complete fumble um if we if we don't you know take this to where we know it can go that's the whole motivation it's really fear-based it's like man imagine if we if we mess this up or or don't capitalize it's like right there in front of us nice yeah I love it so what what does the what does that future look like you've got this North stot what does the future look like for for Lis kit you know at some point do you want to like who knows raise investment um like you know yeah just can you speak on that a bit Yeah so we really want to build this tool bootstrapped um that's how we got to where we're at today I think that's how we can get to where we're kind of envisioning and going which again is like the ultimate like the best most solid reliable product on the market for sourcing leads that's it it's not going to involve any sending it's not going to involve any CRM it's just going to be for creating leads list um so our biggest focus is on product um using you know really all the revenue that we're generating uh towards improving product and so we have some really exciting updates that are going to be rolling out next week especially at uh this web Summit conference and we work in Sprints right so there's always something to look forward to so for the past two months it's been websummit like this big Tech conference and by websummit we have a spefic specific road map as to what we want to have ready by then and so there's some really key features we're going to be introducing at the at the conference um but we want to just keep building the product better and better and better and by doing so not only are we helping our our users but we're also increasing the value ad to our client Ascension students and to our knowledge de clients um and we want to build it to the point of an exit I I imagine an exit would happen ideally around like million plus is is really our North Star because once you get past that I feel like you you really do have to to take on investment uh to further grow it and to build out an organization that's not really attractive to like what I enjoy doing like I want to exit Lis kit and go right back into client Ascension and continue pouring you know my learnings into that Community there and I just think I'd get tied up if if we tried to take this thing too far so I don't want to go public or or go for like a a unicorn like a billion dollar exit but I think we could do something pretty impressive in in the next year or two I like it I have no doubt um you'll achieve that so that's it thank you so much for your time um I'll of course put like the links to everything the school Community the the products um your your profiles um in the notes but for those who are listening on like audio only is there any final comments from yourself like anywhere where you want to direct people to yeah I always say just just try it out uh so like I mentioned we do 50 free leads so I forget the URL but I think it's list kit.

50-free leads and so you put in your name and information and then you just tell us about your ICP and we'll send you literally a free list of 50 triple verified email leads of people in your ICP and then from there you can determine whether or not it's going or it's worth going to the website to buy a package of more credits um and other than that like yeah I think a big part of it too is following the journey on on social media even if L gets on a tool that can be valuable to you you might be listening to this as a potential SAS business owner and so just seeing how we've kind of built things and we'll continue to build things with product announcements and what we're doing within the school community and how much training and free value we're providing there and how we're rewarding the active community members and we even convert like literally the school Community is so valuable we took one of the members from that community and turned them into an onboarding specialist so now everyone that signs up for list kit they get offered a free one-on-one onboarding call with someone in the US that's an absolute expert at putting together the most targeted search possible on list kit and that was sourced directly from our school Community someone that was just like people listening watching The Journey from the sideline and was just really interested in getting involved in some way um and so you can do that yourself too if that's your motive um or if you just are here for a list building solution check out the free 50 lead sample and um other than that I just appreciate you having me on I like to talk because I've just been bottling this up for the past two years and really been excited to share it with the world so I appreciate you giving me the platform no no worries man good to chat and excited to see the journey cheers